You know, I like the idea. What form will the first case take if you don't mind me asking?
One thing about the intro though:
Spoiler : :
Could use more back story into why this group is formed, what their goals are and how they will complete their objectives. If that's covered in the first case then that's fine but people would like slightly more information from an introduction.
_________________ "The Prime Minister said that we're borrowing more? YOU ARE BORROWING MORE!" -Ed Miliband (Opposition Leader) to the PM
Trial Series: Harry Stanton: Attorney & Executioner viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8460 And yes, he is a real executioner...
Thu May 02, 2013 2:50 am
iamssj4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 9:49 pm Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
You know, I like the idea. What form will the first case take if you don't mind me asking?
One thing about the intro though:
Spoiler : :
Could use more back story into why this group is formed, what their goals are and how they will complete their objectives. If that's covered in the first case then that's fine but people would like slightly more information from an introduction.
Don't worry. Everything will be revealed eventually.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: THIS SERIES DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE.
Thu May 02, 2013 2:58 am
Rtaos Grimm
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:56 am Posts: 78
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Well, the main problem was that everything went by wayyyyyy too fast. I don't understand any of the characters or their motivations. The dialogue also needs way more work, right now it is just very rushed and no characters really have personalities. I have to wonder, how was the defendant given a not guilty? Phoenix just said that the witness was in the room or something, and then "lol not guilty". Yeah I'm just lost, I'm sorry... But this needs tons of tons of work. Really focus on improving the dialogue and letting events take their natural time to happen, instead of being so rushed. I think that is the main problem with this. It needs to be much longer as well. There were many presentation errors and graphical errors as well as glitches, but I don't feel like going through those.
Well, the main problem was that everything went by wayyyyyy too fast. I don't understand any of the characters or their motivations. The dialogue also needs way more work, right now it is just very rushed and no characters really have personalities. I have to wonder, how was the defendant given a not guilty? Phoenix just said that the witness was in the room or something, and then "lol not guilty". Yeah I'm just lost, I'm sorry... But this needs tons of tons of work. Really focus on improving the dialogue and letting events take their natural time to happen, instead of being so rushed. I think that is the main problem with this. It needs to be much longer as well. There were many presentation errors and graphical errors as well as glitches, but I don't feel like going through those.
I feel really confused right now...
Trust me...this is just the beginning. Sure, this trial is short and stuff...but I am working hard on the second. If I put as much effort into the second case as the first, it would be done. I have long to go for the second one.
Wed May 08, 2013 4:02 am
enigma
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:05 am Posts: 2210 Location: Where you least expect me!!!
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, learning a bit of japanese-For real!
Well, see, that's an issue I discovered ages ago. You can't build a building if the first floor's collapsing, similarly you can't build a trial series if the first is no good. If anything, the first case should have MORE effort put into it than the second. After all, if th building's lobby looks amazing, more people are going to check it out. Here's what I think, if you're truly serious about this trial series, go back and fix the first case. Make it amazing, make it draw me in. Because, right now, even if you make the second case better than DWaM, Tap and Rune's works combined... No-one will ever play it. At all. They'll play the opening and judge thee rest of the series on that. In the end, the first case is our fist taste of the series and we want it to be good. Saying "I didn't care about this because I'm working on the second case and the second case is AMAZING!" is not an excuse. Don't play favorite child with your trial series. Don't pour all your love into one. Pour all you love into the first case, and then when it's done regenerate all that effort and love and pour it the frig into the next one! Remember, if you're not planning on giving it your all in every case... I hate to say this but, well, don't make a trial series. Make a single case and put your all into that because, frankly, if not every case is your best effort than that trial series is sunk. And if this was your best effort? Just admit that. Don't be ashamed. You're still a new author, right? Even if people thought it was terrible, if you gave it your best and released it, then you don't have to make excuses. Just admit that you put a lot of effort into it. Don't take this as saying don't fix it. By all means, fix it as soon as possible. You've released it and now you have feedback so you CAN make it the absolute best version it could be. So, in summary, try your best with making every case and if you get negative feedback don't just make excuses and say you're making something better. Make the changes they want. Take your trial back into the editor and fix very little problem. Because, at heart, every trial is made of effort and what the people want. In fact, I'd reccomend getting a set of beta testers to tell you what to fix/do before it's even released.
tl;dr: Fix chapter 1 before moving on to chapter 2. "Chapter 2 will be better," is not an excuse.
_________________
Wed May 08, 2013 11:09 am
Enthalpy
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:40 am Posts: 995
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, limited Spanish
And on that note, I played through this and noticed two major issues, both of which were already referenced.
Spoiler : :
First, this case is way too short. This is extremely common for new authors. Current recommendations are for a case to be 1000 frames minimum for something that a player will actually enjoy. The reason for this is that with less than 1000 frames, events are happening too fast, or there aren't enough events. In this case, it was a bit of both. Things happened far, far too fast. The talk with the defendant, Franziska's opening statement, and the two presents post-trial occurred so quickly that important information didn't get conveyed properly. This left open a lot of things that confuse the player. I would very highly recommend replaying 2-1, 3-1, or 4-1 to get a sense of how a "trial-only" segment should run. In my opinion, 3-1 is the best.
The second problem is pretty common for new authors, but extremely important to fix: plot holes!
A plot hole is when an event in a story or game is illogical. The event can be anything from a character acting oddly to something needing more explanation.
I'll walk through my experience with the case.
* A ghost named Pally offers to help Phoenix Wright in bad situations because Phoenix has the defensive skills of a god. This fact in itself is an abundance of plot holes. Why is there a ghost named Pally, and how can he contact Phoenix? Why does Pally want to help Phoenix? Why does Phoenix trust Pally? Why does Pally feel the need to help Phoenix if he's such a great defense attorney? * Phoenix is talking to his client, that they're talking is good, but nothing of importance is said about the case. What are the defendant and the victim like? Is this a murder? Why is Phoenix defending this person? Why was the defendant arrested? * Now the judge is asking for the prosecution's opening statement. Good, although doing more than copy-pasting the autopsy report would have been appreciated. It's a very un-Franziska like opening, although her actions made sense before this. I would also like to know more about the victim's and defendant's relationship. * Now, the next witness. She complains about being shy, but there's no reason to believe this apart from her initial stuttering. Why the personality change? What is the witness's name and occupation? How did the witness come to witness the crime scene? * The testimony is even weirder. Rofel is shy, but nosy? Why did she assume that there was a relationship problem between the defendant and victim? From where did she the crime scene? Where is the crime scene? * Okay, so why did the witness think that there was a struggle? * Why would the witness mistake a struggle for calling a phone? That seems like a rather irrelevant issue to lie about. * Why is Franziska's evidence accepted without any shock from the court? Whenever a prosecutor in the main series pulled that trick, there was more of a reaction. * Why isn't Franziska objecting to Phoenix's deduction that the witness was in the room when the murder occurred? From where did Rofel claimed to have witnessed the murder? Why did Franziska let such simple problems slip? * Why is the judge acquitting the defendant after Phoenix simply accuses the witness of being at the crime scene during the crime? Why did Franziska not object? * Why does Phoenix talk about "being awesome in court"? Isn't he concerned with the fact that the defendant's life was presumably at stake? * Looking back, none of the characters showed much personality, besides Franziska before her opening statement.
By the end of the case, the player is left completely and utterly confused. There are so many plot holes that it's difficult to even comprehend what happened.
I cannot emphasize enough that these problems are common for new authors, but fixing them is paramount. As is, the case gives the player a strong negative impression of you as an author. I'm not saying that's fair, however, it is going to stay that way until you fix your first case! There were other issues, but concentrate on those too first.
_________________
I am willing to beta-test ANY entry for the Turnabout Convergence competition. PM me for details.
Wed May 08, 2013 1:18 pm
iamssj4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 9:49 pm Posts: 7
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Wow, all this advice is REALLY helpful. Just like you requested, I am going to remake the first trial. It will be new and improved, and really good too. Nice metaphor, by the way
Wed May 08, 2013 10:43 pm
enigma
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:05 am Posts: 2210 Location: Where you least expect me!!!
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, learning a bit of japanese-For real!
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